systemd was a fucking mistake
CVE-2021-33910: Denial of Service (Stack Exhaustion) in systemd
@r000t i'd wait for the systemd apologists to arrive, but they usually are on the fEdibLoCk servers.. :)
@iron_bug @r000t @bonifartius When I work I tried to replace Debian with Devuan but we use Proxmox a lot and currently is not possible to install Proxmox in Devuan. If you see the main cloud providers (This could be another debate), you barely see non-systemd options. That's why I mean and many companies go "standard".
In my case I don't mind to use qemu in cli but I don't take those choices in the company I work.
My concern is that more apps have hard depends on systemd.
With soft-dependencies there is not a problem, the thing are hard dependencies. systemd just inserted problems we didn't use to have.
i think it's very hard to find companies who don't use a systemd distribution after even debian switched. many people like this "unification" and don't see the bad deal they make with using systemd: bugs non existent before (like the current systemd-crash-bug), shitty reimplementations of >30 year old modular software systems (systemd-resolved is utter crap, even the local-dnsmasq-solution was better) and exponential raise in linking dependencies, because things now use systemd includes everywhere. we've had IPC via sane text based protocols (with the binary exception if it made sense). now we have crazy dbus constructs and people trying to reimplement windows.
systemd proponents say ".service files are so easy to write!" when in reality you only have to write the PID to a file and add a signal handler to your program if it needs to shutdown gracefully. hell, build a "myprogramctl" tool which talks to the daemon via IPC, also fine. i think 95% of the people don't know, and probably don't care because "it's old!", how these things work anymore.
if your software needs fancy systemd features to run correctly, it's broken. if you need the automagick-restart-feature, it's broken. systemd is enabling laziness/bad software in exchange for brittle, inscrutable complexity.
> adding PID to somewhere is not a "graceful shutdown". it's killing a process, generally. every application had its own way of graceful exit with cleaning up its resourtces. there's no single and universal way to do it.
sure you still need a signal handler for gradeful shutdown :) you can also add a myprogramctl tool which does IPC (but please not dbus :D) with the daemon. whatever fits best!
> and no software needs useless-d features. there's no any special features in it that could ever be needed on Linux. it's a lump of terrible code.
i truly dread the day when linus steps down. they already tried to cancel him. i fear after he's gone, the floodgates are open for all the crappy ideas like kdbus etc. :/
@iron_bug @r000t @bonifartius I read an article when Linus mentioned the kernel was bloated, and then by companies pressure he had to take his words back. There is a libre version of Linux, used by 100% free software distros. That's why I support ideas like this https://mntmn.com/reform/ because I think I should start buying hardware made to support 100% free software.
"pissed everyone off in literally record time" - Recommended by 10 out of 10 people who, for some sad reason, have a dedicated column up to watch #fediblock.