Kaniini jumps into a discussion dude wasn't invited into, proceeds to tell me I don't work in the field I work in.

This is why I can't support OCAP. Its marketing department is... out of this world.

Physicist: No, we're pretty sure there's *not* a way to make a magical glass pane that only passes light to good and honest people.
Kaniini: But people have use cases for that!
Physicist: I'm in the business of studying the interactions of light and other matter, and I'm p sure there's no way to prevent "bad" people from seeing light you reflect without controlling who's around it
Kaniini: You ain't in the business of fuck all. Show me the panes.

@r000t how can you say they weren't invited when you literally tragged them in your post?

@animeirl Simple; This screenshot doesn't reflect the entire conversation. There is a point in it wherein they join the discussion without having been tagged prior, with a fucking 5 paragraph essay to boot, because I chided their pet project.

In fact, here it is!

@r000t thanks. also i would argue having empathy for people would include not giving them a false sense of security

@r000t @animeirl also, if you didn't want them in the discussion, do it in direct messages. it's always been the nature of this network to jump into random threads, don't start crying victim now that people are doing it to disagree with you

@mewmew @r000t yeah complaining about tumblrisms while engaging in one of the most tumblry practices ever is kind of hypocritical

@mewmew @animeirl
Oh, I 100% agree with you.

It's just that, I jumped into a discussion a few months ago, and was told this was a bad and awful thing to do.

Double standards are interesting, ain't they?

@mewmew @animeirl I believe the discussion was about "automatically" disabling the Mastodon software for anybody "deemed to be a nazi", I asked what criterion would be used, and dude's whole instance dogpiled immediately.

Juuuuuuuuuuuuust following the leader!

@r000t @animeirl I don't think Kaniini was the one doing that.

kinda association fallacy there

@mewmew @r000t no you see if one person you don't agree with believes something that means everyone you disagree with believes all the exact same things

@mewmew @animeirl
Got it. Where's the published list of people allowed to join public conversations?

@r000t @mewmew if you want to go generate a list of every account on the fediverse then go for it dude

@r000t @animeirl literally everyone? you miss the point, I think you're allowed to join a random conversation, I'm sure most other people, especially on this side of the network, agree, the network isn't a monolith though, and people can disagree on things here.

@r000t @mewmew @animeirl
anyone that can see a post is allowed to join

whether it's smart to do so is another story

@tn5421 @mewmew @animeirl
There's also a major difference between joining a conversation and taking pot shots at its participants.

I was dogpiled for asking a legitimate question in regards to implementation.

Kaniini's getting a pass for straight-up ad hominem.

@r000t @tn5421 @animeirl I still don't see why you didn't link the thread from the beginning, allowing us to decide for ourselves

@mewmew @animeirl @tn5421

There you go. Muting the conversation. I got a Zaunite street punk to hang out with.

@r000t @mewmew @animeirl
kaniini is the modern day linus torvalds, i think people just don't give a shit anymore

@r000t @mewmew @animeirl
it's like trying to argue that Delores Umbridge isn't hated enough.

@tn5421 @r000t @animeirl lots of people hate Kaniini because Kaniini doesn't easily give into pressure from people, so she's very frustrating to them, especially since they expect to get it from others.

@r000t @tn5421 @mewmew if your complaint is with the tone kaniini used and not the argument then it does sound like maybe you should actually go back to tumblr

@r000t @animeirl pro tip: don't post in public if you don't want the public to interact.

Whinging because you're insufferable and trying to lay blame on @kaniini just shows your weak character

@feld @animeirl @kaniini
Oh, I 100% agree with you.

It's just that, I jumped into a discussion a few months ago, and was told this was a bad and awful thing to do.

Double standards are interesting, ain't they?

@r000t @feld @animeirl

I jumped into the conversation because you were being derisive toward people who do have legitimate concerns even if their proposed solutions are bad.
@r000t @animeirl @kaniini you should not have been chided for that. If people want a private conversation and not a public discussion there are many options to do so
@feld @r000t @animeirl

yeah, i don't see any problem in joining a public conversation. then again, I don't use the elephant software.

what i do see a problem with is basically laughing at people for being burned by the fact that they have to either choose to make things public or use a completely broken followers-only scope or use a completely broken form of direct messaging.

which is why i joined the conversation to begin with.

@kaniini @feld @r000t followers only scope is so broken it shouldn't exist. thats my opinion glad we settled that

@r000t my sincere apology for overreacting back there -- I see we had misunderstandings on many sides of this interaction
@animeirl @feld @r000t if people want to have a wall, let them. why are you entitled to viewing 100% of their content? should all e-mails be publicly readable?

@kaniini @feld @r000t if people try to get into the private instance we'll put them in detention centers

@kaniini @feld @r000t we can also send drones to conduct DDOS against admins who don't agree with our policies

@animeirl @feld @r000t i'm sure in the absence of actual security, it's coming, just like it happened on IRC
@animeirl @feld @r000t

but hey, people don't want security. even the people who professionally do security say that anybody who wants to secure activitypub is a snowflake.

so i'm pretty close to just saying fuck it honestly.

the reality is, i've had more fun coding on my other projects than working on fediverse stuff for a while now.
@toast @animeirl @feld @r000t

yes, just like alpine, when the landscape gets too fucked, i know when to quit.
@animeirl @feld @r000t

i try to be enthusiastic about this stuff, in fact, i felt like after APconf, maybe we have a new wave of energy to start to make progress on these problems in a meaningful way.

but then you see people like r000t who just sit around deriding everyone because they complained the features they were sold by Mastodon were rotten. a security professional laughing at people for actually wanting the security they were sold. this especially frustrates me because that schadenfreude mentality undermines what we are trying to accomplish here.

@kaniini @feld @r000t @animeirl
I do, indeed, want real actual security. ActivityPub was designed to be adopted by the large web properties, and that won't happen without real actual security.

But here's the bit: I want real. actual. security. Not a "PROTECTED BY OCAP" sign in the front yard.

Implying I don't want actual security as much as anybody else is nothing short of libel.

@feld @r000t @animeirl I agree there. but that's not what I am building :)

and this is why the effort moves slowly. we want to be confident in what we are doing.

anyway I'm sorry for being a dick last night. you guys were just shooting some shit but it was frustrating to see people who want the security they were promised referred to as snowflakes basically.

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@r000t @kaniini @feld @r000t @animeirl I think you're looking at what people paint OCAP as instead of what OCAP actually is.
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@r000t they're tagged in the fucking screenshot what do you mean "not invited"
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A silly domain for test deploys, now has a mastodon instance. A place for memes as shitty as the name. Zero bullshit tolerated.